The Pilot in Toronto

Fabulous if youre looking for an unreal experience.

For years you could count on The Pilot for great Thai Noodles, good service and a relaxed vibe. Now you better be prepared to settle for good service, a relaxed vibe and meh food offerings. One less reason for making the trek to Cumberland.

Very poor food. Place is a bit cramped, especially the mens room, the staircase and felt claustrophobic. Had fun at trivia night though and service was decent.

Michelle was incredibly helpful! She assisted me in retrieving a missing coat, which I had accidentally left in a private party space due to a miscommunication within my group. The jacket had been taken home by the party host, but Michelle stayed on top of the situation and communicated promptly throughout the process. Coral (phonetically spelled) was also very helpful when I went to pick up my coat. Great people and excellent service, and highly recommend!

brought three of my friends here for a birthday celebration, was sat at a table, host brought us menus and water, we sat there for about 40 minutes with no server checking up on us and then decided to leave. it wasn t even busy or was it close to closing time. there were about 4 other tables on the rooftop and they were all getting service. the servers here are absent minded. we ended up going to writers bar instead to spend our time and money.

We didnt go to the restaurant. We went to see a band upstairs. Its was a great night! We asked bartender for some suggestions. He gave us a Paper Airplane. Im a beer drinks generally, but this drink was nice!

Established pub in Yorkville, nice staff with mixed clientele of locals and visitors

Great food, great service!! We were a party of 13 and the food and service were excellent. Will definitely go back.

Cole is the greatest down to earth bartender and he s a great human all around!

Bartenders busting their a$$, giving the best service in the city. Thanks Tom !

Great spot and food. The wings were delicious and service was great!

Attended the Oktoberfest event last night, even though there were no vegan options regarding the Oktoberfest menu, they did have a couple in their regular menu. The flat breads were delicious and the staff were really friendly. Lots of dancing and music. Fantastic party and service.

The best vegetarian burger I ve ever had

It was ok. I imagine sitting upstairs on their patio would have made it better but we were with a parent would couldnt do steps. Not a bad place at all. Would probably go back with my wife.

Great place! The service was extremely good! The food was also quite good. Had the classic fish and chips. Will definitely be coming back!

Terrible food. Portions were miniscule. Service was amazing though. Wish the food was better.

Nothing special

First, I had the Caprese flatbread. It s supposed to have a garlic humus spread, cheese and tomatoes of course, and balsamic glaze. Presentation was beautiful. But it was literally tasteless, like water. I asked for more balsamic glaze and doused it in salt, no recovery. I understand it s not a salty cheese but where was the humus ? Or garlic flavour? The server didn t even ask how it was, maybe she saw how I was lacing it in salt. My friend ordered a salad, it had some flavour, but it was very mediocre. Completely disappointed. Won t be coming back, especially since we drove 2 hours to get there.

We came in as a party of 7 with a reservation. There was maybe 2 or 3 other tables at the roof top bar... it was not busy. It took about 20-30 minutes for us to get a server and some water... we had to ask the hostess who are server was. Turns out there was a mix-up in who would be serving our table, but no apology was given. When we were served our food, a chicken strips was incorrectly served instead of a fish and chips. They offered to swap our food, but at that point we were a bit too hungry to wait for the fix to come. Food is average at best, drinks are above average as reflected in the rating. Vibes are good though. One mistake is fine... but two when you are not busy is very disappointing.

It is my favourite bar!!! Great food, beer options and reasonable prices. Vegetarian options: So tasty!!! I am obsessed with the cauliflower!!! Food : 5/5 |

Great casual patio spot to go to after walking and shopping all day.

Had an excellent night of drinks. Some of the best drinks I had while on vacation. Robert took very good care of us and made the night great.

I love this place. The rooftop patio is lovely, the drinks are cold and not too expensive and the food is fresh and delicious. Definitely recommend stopping in for a drink and a meal.

One of my favourite bars in the entire city. Low key, good food, lots of drink options, and wonderful patios. Love it! Food : 5/5

Nice place to chill with a few friends to catch up. The fresh air and an okay view gives a really nice vibe. The drinks are slightly more expensive because youre downtown. The servers are nice and sociable. They have a nice bar and band setup at the ground floor. Im not sure if they have happy hour or times when some things would be cheaper. Budget for 2 around $60

Food was good, but service was inattentive and the room wasnt set up terribly well for the event we attended. There were no key lights for the stage, so it was hard to see the performers Vegetarian options: Veggie burger was veggie burger. Tasty enough. Nothing special

Iconic joint. Nothing to write home about from ground level. If you like classic rock cover bands the pilot has you covered. It is all about the upper patio which had no space when I arrived. Might be a 4 star then. If you want to hear Taking Care of Business, or another classic trope Mustang Sally, keep your eye peeled for a band. If you are lucky you might get an Eagles cover.

my dinner was not even sub par. undercooked salmon.plain rice and salad from a bag that tasted chemically. but then I noticed we had been sat by the kitchen and not given the chance to move to the open corner..which the restaraunt was over half empty. Our section was covered by a tarp. Warning ...Over 40 years.dont bother going..they sat another older couple next to us as we were leaving. they also were not offered a prime area in that restaurant. We wont be back

One of my favorite go to places when my buddies and I just wanna have a good time. The food is great, the beer is great and the atmosphere is amazing! Must visit! Food

Had a great time with team over here, great team and service

Good service, everything else was very average

Music night venue; well done

Its fine, rooftop patio staff during the day always seem to be wanting to do something else around the bar other than serve. Always seems like an inconvenience to them to ask for a new drink. Food is hit or miss and overpriced. The place is old too and you can tell from things like the really loud fans that are great at drowning out the sound of the sports on the TVs

Great space and staff. Love having private events there

Never been. But they are doing something right with this security guard. Looks like a tank!

We didn t have food, so I can t say how that was, but atmosphere was great and the bartender was a rockstar.

Food is good, nice presentation but not a very good service. Restaurant was very empty for Sunday brunch and they barely checked on us, and we were a table of 7. Also they auto add 20% gratuity on the bill, too much for the service provided.

Great roof.. Loud from construction Kara took great care of us Food : 4/5

A classic spot in Toronto. Happy to see it survived the condo build on its doorstep. Should only get better from here

What a great place for a pint and some good food, service was quick and the brunch was delicious. Highly recommended.

The food in this place is awful. It was my second time in this place, and just confirmed that I never want to go back. My hamburger was burned, I told the server the bread was burnt and he changed it but the patty was burnt too. The French fries looked and tasted like they were made 3 days ago.

Very slow Sunday - but quiet: good for me - bad for them . Food was really good - fries were excellent - beer was excellent too . I ll definitely go back

Came here after the original place you wanted to go to is closed. Very happy that we stumbled in. Great food. Nice service and I can see why its been popular for so long.

The Pilot is and will always be an iconic bar. Great rooftop patio, the scene of many drunken evenings and the holding the honour of the worst pad thai noodles Ive ever had. Seriously go for the burger or wings, etc. The pad thai noodles are criminally, inexplicably bad.

It wasnt to my tastes but my friends did enjoy it.

Great vibes in the place serving nice beer on the tap and good food .especially hot and fresh

Bread is delicious n coffee is amazing

Gotta let customers know about sudden private party event and mandatory charge of the tips before charging them price of the alcohol and 20% tips.

Loved the food n service. We visited during the week, so it was quiet, which allowed for great conversations. Which is exactly what we wanted. Would recommend

Lovely place

The pilot - a Toronto institution. Go there while you still can, as Im sure itll eventually end up a condo.

So glad its still there

Jazz Saturdays are amazing!!! High quality music, nice people and location.

Great multi level music club in the centre of the city.

Love this place

Went here with a large group for a University Reunion. At first, I had trouble finding the group as I did not realize that there was an upstairs level, however once I realized, then we managed to reunite with the group and enjoyed the evening together. Not too pricey and good service!

First time Id actually been here. For a private function. Great service and great food. Look forward to going back.

It is an awesome space and they havent had awesome food I highly recommend it

This is a warm, unpretentious Toronto watering hole with 80 years of authenticity behind it. A perfect change from the self-conscious tone of most of Yorkville, Pilot is comfy, with decent pints and hearty food. The nicest things are often the least complicated. Food

The Pilot restaurant is that one restaurant you always want to come back to to try different items on their menu. The prices are very affordable and the portions are quite big! Its also a bar where you can go have a few drinks with your friends and the atmosphere is superb. When we were there, our waitress was extremely hospitable and we had great service. Definitely recommend! Great resto

Great location for a rooftop patio, which was thankfully heated on a somewhat chili day. It was comfortable regardless. The menu is very diverse, and option for everyone. The server did spill a drink on me, apologized profusely, but I still had to deal with sticky pants and no napkins brought to me until I asked. I tried not to make a fuss about it as I was on a business meeting, but it was quite uncomfortable. I am looking forward to returning on a night that has live entertainment.

Expensive prices but love the patio

This is a awesome bar just to hang out after work and catch up with a few buddies! Been around for years.

celeste was an absolute pleasure to be catered by. went above and beyond while providing quality customer service. a true shame that no other establishment could come close to finding someone to represent them in this manner. 10/10 should be GM with this level of customer service. impeccable. will certainly be returning and look forward to such a comforting and welcoming atmosphere. please take your business here. music was also top notch, but i mainly post here to highlight celeste s absolute dedication to my experience.

Had an amazing experience at The Pilot last weekend! I hosted a surprise party in The Stealth room which went perfectly. Michelle and the staff were absolutely amazing to work with and they met all my requests with ease. A lot of the partygoers commented on how great the venue was. Would absolutely host another event here and will be recommending The Pilot to others for their events.

Well everything else around it gets knocked down and over build the pilot is there authentic as ever

We went there for a private party. The space and service was really good.

Came here for an early mother s day dinner. The patio was really nice and the staff were very attentive. The food was good, and the portions were a good size.

Very loud!

Good food, nice atmosphere. Love the art deco-ish washrooms too Vegetarian options: Had the Ultimate Burger (plant based) - was delicious!!! Food : 5/5 |

Wonderful patio area. Great service and nice environment. Food is very good. The place does get busy so be sure to secure your table.

Loved it! Especially truffle aioli paired well with french fries.

The rooftop was beautiful, and the staff were friendly. It was a very good experience overall. We had the pilot burger and the fish and chips. The burger was super delicious, but the fish and chips were good, though not outstanding.

We ordered Shishito peppers and onion rings as a side with the bottle of wine that we ordered, and Lobster Mac & Cheese as the main dish which was deliciousssss! I will definitely go there again for this mac&cheese.

Super casual, fun, sky patio that I recommend. (Save this spot for low-key first dates and meeting the bestie for weekend mimosas.)

Delicious dark beer and potato chip.

Great Patio excellent service, food is typical bar food, nothing special.

Average food, average drinks and average atmosphere. However, it is nice to sit on their patio on a sunny day.

The service was alright but the portions were very small for the price. Ordered a $8+ mocktail that was supposedly blueberry lemon and rosemary flavoured. It just tasted like lemon + tonic water. No rosemary, and like 3 blueberries on a stick for garnish. Kind of regretted it.

Best rooftop patio in downtown, for any season! Good (pub) nachos and flatbreads in appropriate portion sizes.

Poor service.

Wonderful food and great place to listen to jazz. Colourful art (local artists) and nice atmosphere. Great for catching up with old friends and listening to music.

Super rude waitresses!

Unfortunately the staff were disrespectful and the manager did not attempt to resolve the issue at all.

I had an extremely disappointing experience at The pilot, due to the outrageously rude behavior of one of the waitresses. From the moment I entered, her hostile demeanor and dismissive attitude made it clear that guest satisfaction was not a priority. I hope the management takes immediate action to address the issue and improve their customer service, as I cannot recommend this establishment until significant improvements are made. service was not good.

Was at the Pilot on June 30th. Service was great, food was great, vibe was great. At least it was until a big group came in and asked if they could accommodate them. Most places would have said a hard no, but they were welcomed. It ended up that there were about 40 of them, and unfortunately, a pretty motley crew. They were super rude to the server and complained about everything. They even called the manager over. Wanted all separate bills and were just so unnecessarily miserable to the server - I dont know how she kept it together. I could hear them plotting to leave 1 star reviews, and low and behold, looks like 5 of these clowns did. Ignorant, awful people. The Pilot is always a great place to go. We love it!

Amazing jazz!!

This was my first time going to The Pilot and its got a great feel to it. Food was great, service was great. We sat on the rooftop patio and enjoyed it. But with all the construction going on and set to go on around it, I think its days are numbered for sure sadly. So if you want to go to a place that is not one of those upper echelon type rooftop patios, go here. Youll like it. I definitely will check out the live music on a weekend sometime too.

Amazing roof top patio for a cold beer and some pub food. Great exciting atmosphere in a trendy neighborhood. Attractive patrons. Great service. Would revisit. Food

Chairs uncomfortable but the jazz musicians were quite entertaining. Food OK but I wouldnt go back there just for the food.

The Pilot is great, love their rooftop patio. Food is good, drinks are good, service is good. Would recommend for a casual night out.

Great food, affordable, beautiful rooftop Patio !

Excellent venue for live jazz with fine service thrown in.

Good place to hear good music!

Went for the jazz and loved it

Nice spot, food was good, but nothing spectacular.

1 star only because our server was nice but me and my friend had a really bad experience in this place, the food kept coming cold and the drinks were not good. I definitely would not recommend you going there.

Came here on a weeknight with a large party for the first time. I really wanted to like The Pilot because its such a community staple, but I found the food and drinks really overpriced. The shrimp tacos were literally like shrimp cocktail shrimp and a little pineapple salsa.

The Pilot has a great concept. Bathrooms were like being on a plane in every way. The stairs were metal, the roof can close to give you shelter from the rain. The staff was nice. The food was good. Vegetarian options: Many options Dietary restrictions: Let them know Parking: I parked valet at the 4 seasons and walked back. Street parking might be available but not on the street it s on Kid-friendliness: Burgers and fries for kids Many options to choose from

If youre looking for a place with great food and exceptional service, this place delivers on both fronts. The staff is attentive and friendly, ensuring a pleasant dining experience. However, the view might not meet your expectations. While the food and service are good, the view from here might not be as wide as you had hoped.

Be mindful that there are three flights of stairs to reach the (heated) patio terrace. Remember to breathe. My nearly 85-year-old mother made it with a few stops along the way. It (deliberately) feels like you re on a ship with the sleek, metallic gray colors handrails, steps and walls with mirrors on every landing. The friendly servers were, as the French say, au petit soins, which means that they attended to our minutest needs. Lift your pinky and someone will come running. Ingredients were fresh, the food very tasty, portions reasonably sized, and the presentation attractive. Do you like jazz? Every Saturday from 2:30pm 5:30pm on the main floor, no reservation needed. Oh, and did I mention that for such class you pay a farthing? We were pampered and I strongly recommend The Pilot. Will definitely come again.

It s a great place for dinning and chilling with friends. Food and drinks are great and the staff is very attentive and kind. Be aware that if you re looking for a rooftop, this might be different than what you re expecting; it s actually a place with a patio on the 2nd floor but the views are not great nor terrible, you can t actually see much from there. Vegetarian options: Onion rings, Pilot nachos

Worst restaurant I ve ever went We asked a waitress to change our seats to downstairs cuz the rain is quite big and the roof got some issue or sth, I explained to her we literally sitting under rain, she said she ll check later for us, and then few seconds after she was chatting with someone else not trying to help us, we look at her to let her know we re still waiting ,but she avoid eye contact with us, the whole experience is really rude and we all feel upset and I don t think she did her job well, thank god we leave, cuz I don t expect to pay this waitress any tip, I hope she can get trained well, first start with her attitude and manners.

Very nice roof patio, great service and all the food was very good but I definetly recommend the Quesadilla with avocado and chicken, was amazing!!!

They take $10 as a charge to reserve the table on OpenTable. They have an amazing patio on the rooftop which has shade so even if it is raining or drizzling you will be fine! They dont have many options if you dont drink but they have good cocktails and love their nachos. I have been there a couple of times and its never disappointing.

My server Carl was a true gentleman and gave me the pleasant experience that humbles most. He gave phenomenal recommendations like the hippy bowl and served us fast and efficiently. Makes me want to come every weekend

Great spot, great service, alcohol prices are a bit steep for what you get but the rest is solid

The central location was ideal. The covered patio was appreciated & ideal due to rain. Made reservations, the table was available when we arrived, table location worked out well. The server & service were great. They even had gluten free beer (I hadnt noticed it on the menu online in advance & hadnt thought they would have it) & tasted good. Food was good, and they accommodated a substitution. The online menu was helpful to be able to review in advance & decide what to order, saving time & decision making at the restaurant. The place seemed to be busy and yet it didnt seem to impact service level or ability to talk easily at table. Washroom seemed clean & to have enough number of stalls. The 3 flights of stairs to the rooftop patio arent ideal (due to some accessibility challenges) but we knew about it when we made the reservation, so it was an informed decision. The stairs seemed to be wide enough and deep enough to be more manageable than most stairs elsewhere - and sturdy. The table was a decent size. Chairs were okay, could be a bit more comfortable. On the (ideal) wishlist of something that could be added to the menu: a side fruit salad that could be ordered as a small appetizer, maybe with hemp seeds and/or almond butter or something dairy free. We talked so much, and food was filling enough, that we didnt manage to finish it all. Thank you for being there, open, and contributing to a positive experience.

Great service and atmosphere. Their roof top has a nice ambiance. Food could be better.

Spent my Birthday night here.. delicious and great vibe

My works teams fav spot across from Manulife center. Great burgers, nachos and wings and exhibitions from local artists.

My first time going to this bar/restaurant. You walk in to a very classic quite dark looking bar... And if you want to sit on the patio. You have to walk up a few flights of metal stairs that resemble the frame and inside of a classic airliner. Hence the name the Pilot. And you reach the roof. A very large patio.. With views but all those rooftops are gone and your view is a giant excavated hole for another condo. But there used to be rooftops before they were demolished. But its still pretty cool up there. Quiet, and spacious. We order the pilot burger with jalapenos and cheese. It was quite good for a corporate burger.. very filling and your typical burger. Pretty cool pub, would go again to try something else on the menu and definitely during the spring summer for a patio meal. A very friendly waitress, very punk but cool look. Old bars like this are always worth visiting. Wheelchair accessibility: I do not think this bar is very accessible unfortunately.

Nice relaxed atmosphere and pretty good value.

The food is not good. Drinks are good, service is fine. But the food. Eat before you get there

I had one of the best ribs here. I was so pleasantly surprised. It was really falling off the bone something I rarely get in a restaurant. Service was excellent, waiter friendly, helpful and professional. Always a great spot

The Pilot has a nice summer patio. It is a rooftop, but doesn t have views as it is on the second floor. Sangria was very delicious, service was great, but the food was not amazing. I was expecting more of the restaurant to be on theme. There wasn t much reference to airplanes or the aeronautical theme.

Made a special Birthday reservation, didn t get even a happy birthday to the celebrator from our waiter. Patio 10/10, food great - don t order the steak, it always comes well done. This place used to have great service but not anymore. Staff turnaround made this an overall 3/10 spot if you re used to good wait staff.

Nice little bar on an empty Street in Yorkville. Its been around since the 50s. That tells you its got to be somewhat decent to survive this long. My parents used to go there when they were in University.

The server tried to charge extra thinking that we are drunk and wont notice

Great artist and look

My partner and I visited on a Wednesday for a late lunch, so it wasn t busy at all. The server was so warm and welcoming, and helped us choose seats that weren t under direct sun. The food is on the pricier end, which didn t match up to the taste/quality of the chicken wings that my partner ordered. I got the jerk chicken wrap, which was a bit small, on the dry side, but still well-seasoned and at least it didn t get too sloppy. A big problem with some outdoor patios are wasps, so we really appreciated the traps they set up to keep them occupied. Overall, we enjoyed our visit! Wheelchair accessibility: NOT wheelchair accessible - two flights of stairs are the only way to get up and down the rooftop patio

We ordered some drinks and a basket of sweet potato fries, and some Korean dumplings. The fries were crispy and delicious and the Korean dumplings were... Dumplings. Dumplings are always good - Its exactly what youre expecting. The service was great and the ambiance is very unique! We sat on the rooftop patio but there was also a jazz performance happening on the main floor. There are a lot of little black flies and wasps on the patio - if youre okay with that then I would recommend going!

Visit: September 2023 Visited on the patio with a larger group. The staff was nice and tended to us often. I got the chorizo quesadillas. They were decent, but I wish there was a stronger chorizo flavor to it. The fries were pretty good as well

I like the OG vibe of the bar. Service was friendly and food was great. Very reasonable prices and portions considering the times. The rooftop doesn t have much of the view, but it s like sitting on patio. Dietary restrictions: Can adjust Mac n Cheese to be without Chorizo

This place has a fun vibe. The second story covered patio is the star of the show and is open later in the season than most patios. It is very comfortable and well set up (there are even washroom on thjs level to save you a walk). There are a LOT of stairs to get to this level but it is worth the climb. The food was quite tasty. Not super fancy but the flavours was good and it was nicely presented. Prices are comparable to other down town places. Not cheap by any means but not outrageous either. Food quality was also good. The service was lacklustre and was the only letdown for the whole experience. It was not at all busy and we were dining with a large group but our server was not engaged or friendly and didn t really check on us at all during our meal. Drinks were not refilled unless we waved down the server and things like ketchup were not offered unless we asked. I feel like the server was doing the bare minimum and it didn t really fit with the rest of the experience which was quite good. I would go back here for anther meal and hope for better service. Dietary restrictions: Gluten and dairy free options

Nice atmosphere and great pints

Keep in mind if you have a +4 party in advance, they will add 20% gratuity automatically, regardless of the service. My last visit had a very poor experience/attention to the table and when I commented on the gratuity they said it was policy and they couldn t removed, although we were 4 people first (who they served) and the fifth person came way after and consumed only one drink and app. On the other hand, food is very good.

The mice on the rooftop patio were way too comfortable moving about in the open

Had a farewell party for ~20 here. Lovely service, food and atmosphere. Easy to book and central location

Looked like a great place to eat. Its a unique concept but I wasnt impressed after coming here twice to eat. Both my friend and I had hard and dry potatoes, food was bland, the atmosphere was cold (literally) and the service was terrible. We were the only ones in the restaurant but it seemed that the servers had better things to do than to serve its customers. Not impressed by the food, price, service and atmosphere.

Hosted my mom s 60th birthday here. Staff were very kind and inviting. Highly recommend for private events!

10/10 experience! Celeste went above and beyond with my friend group and James was an absolutely lovely server. The Pilot never disappoints: quick drinks, yummy eats, good atmosphere (+ heated patio!!), friendly service- what more can you ask for?

Long standing tavern in Yorkville seems to be a favourite by many. Nothing fancy about this place and with construction all around the place could see better days. I went for food mid day lunch. Not overly busy but decent crowd. Service is alright. Servers a bit abrupt - food alright. Average pub fair food definitely not cheap. I went with a group and noticed my friends sandwiches were burnt personally I would have sent it back. I think going for drinks and quick bite this place has a great vibe but I m not sure it s my favourite place. Good to try once atleast.

Great spot

They severely underpour drinks and overcharge. An absolute rip off

I felt like I was waving down a server every 5 minutes to get their attention and when I did, it seemed like they didn t even want to serve me; clearly looked like they would rather be doing other things. Was very disappointed and left earlier than expected.

Meeting with high school friend, friends for 60 years, very special!

Wheelchair accessibility: Absolutely not accessible. Long staircase up to the restaurant. Food

Delicious food. I wasn t able to go to the rooftop bc at that time it was closed (Sunday aft). But it looks like a good place to chill with friends on a weekend or after a long day s work

Haven t been here in years, it was kind of quiet for a Saturday night. We sat on the main floor, it was a little cold. Drinks came out quick and tasted ok. The flat bread we all got were burnt. Don t know if they were having an off night. Overall had an okay time, but wouldn t go out of my way to come back.

The food gets better every time! The art always catches my attention. Service is friendly and fun, and .. they offer gluten free beer!! Here s to that

I have been going there for almost 50 years and love it. A great secret in the city

Not a great experience. Firstly, we thought wed be able to sit on an outdoor patio with heaters; COVID cases are high right now and we wanted to be safe. But we found that the rooftop patio was completely enclosed, and the outdoor area wasnt open. It wasnt even a pleasant space -- its walls of blue tarp, and the place was overheated and felt stuffy. We tried to make the best of it but I felt too anxious about getting sick and I wasnt having a nice time, so we put most of our meal in takeout boxes and went home. The food itself was mostly all right...I found the lobster and crab dip very disappointing, too oniony and not creamy enough, but my wife liked it. The truffle fries were nice, and the sesame cauliflower bites were tasty. My mocktail, the blue rosemary thing, was lovely, if I hadnt been too stressed by the air quality issues to enjoy it properly before we left. Really wish places would stop advertising patios when theyve mummified them so much that you might as well be indoors.